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Message was edited by: Adrie: Certifications Community Mgr.
I really regret not being able to join the Webinar live as I wanted to ask the following question to the panel:
- In an increasingly "Unified Communications world" will the Cisco Certified Architect be challenged into building a design that includes IPT, IVR, Contact Center and Presence solutions? Also, would he/she be challenged into understanding how Cisco can integrate with other vendor's products (e.g.: Microsoft OCS, Active Directory / LDAP, etc...).
It is even a little disapointing to see that these points are not covered in the CCDE exam either. From what I know it is nearly impossible nowadays to be a Designer or Architect without knowing how to put an IP Telephony proposal together...
NOTE: I know that End-to-end QoS design knowledge is necessary on CCDE, but Unified Communications goes way beyond that... Would we have other flavours of CCDEs in the future (CCDE Voice , CCDE Security...)????
I don't think there should be different CCDE tracks either. But on the other hand, despite the current CCDE being quite thorough (in Routing), challenging and difficult, I feel like it still doesn't address the design needs of the modern world. The Network Designer of today (and specially tomorrow) needs to know the best practices on how, why and where to put a CUCM cluster together for instance. And all the implications associated to it.
Companies more and more want a Consultant / Designer / Architect / Technical Authority that knows much more than simply Routing. Routing is often not enough for such position and seems to be regarded as a basic pre-requisite. i.e.: there are plenty of people in the market with Routing skills, so no need to hire a Consultant that knows Routing only.
Or am I the only one with this view?
Now, if the the Cisco Certified Architect addresses this point, then it is fine. But I'm starting to think it doesn't since it has a strong focus on business skills as opposed to technical...
But even talking business... Every CIO nowadays wants to hear about the wonders that Unified Communications bring to collaboration, productivity and long term cost reduction. So I really hope that this is a point that is addressed in the Certified Architect board exam. Otherwise we will have an incomplete certification...
What do you guys think?
Well.. Yes and no. Keep in mind that there are two completely different mindsets between the CCIE and CCDE.
I'd certainly hope people had expert-level knowledge in unified communications if they were putting together an entire infrastructure. However, the implementation is CCIE.
In order to DESIGN something like that, you would need to be familiar with things, but it's not the same level of detail (I guess depending on what level of design we were talking about). The thought process is different.
The thought process for ARCHITECT is even different than that, more tied into business acumen along with the technical side. Will a Cisco Certified Architect type in the commands to make the dial plan on a call manager? I doubt it. Will they understand the BUSINESS SIDE of global call routing features in newer call managers? I would expect yes. I would expect them to be clueful enough to know what to put where, but have other people actually create the detail.
If one person can do it all, then cool... however, you'd be way overworked!
I'm not entirely sure I'm on board with the complete separations that Cisco seems to have in mind for them, but going down their path, it's a different mindset (thought process) for each certification type. So I don't see as much of the need for detailed knowledge, particularly product/feature-based versus overall functionality.
I'm open for opinions on that though!
I wrote a lot of things - which may have confused everybody - but my point is actually very simple:
if according to Cisco, the CCDE is the one that will DESIGN and answer to the "Why" question... then I'd expect this professional to be able to Design a Voice network as well, right? After all, CCVP or even CCIE Voice would know the answer to the "How" question (i.e.: implement it), but not necessarily the "Why". i.e.: CCIE Voice is not the Design person for Voice.
But... if the CCDE program doesn't cover Voice Design, then who will give the answers to the "Why" questions on Voice coming from the customer?!?!?!
Would that be the Certified Architect? Apparently not. Then who? IMHO there is a gap.
Good discussion. I see the other side of this.. At this point, voice is simply an application that runs on infrastructure. I wouldn't ask my network designer to design the voice infrastructure, just as I wouldn't ask him/her to design our MS Exchange / Messaging infrastructure. On the other hand, I would expect my network designer to provide input into either project, and incorporate those systems into any future network design work.
Voice seems to get 'special billing' within the network engineering community, when compared to other applications like messaging, video conferencing, financial apps, etc. It is understandable, since the skillset is similar, and many network engineers are also responsible for voice networks or came from that background. Cisco's involvement in the telephony equipment business also confuses the issue. In the end though, voice is simply a network-based application... a very sensitive and tightly integrated one!
I'm not sure about the voice/telephony part of the issue, but I do understand where you're coming from. I thought I'd copy and past something I wrote from an earlier thread on CCDE. Actually, when I read some of the information on the Cisco Certified Architect, the first position that came to my mind was CIO.
Below is what I copied from an earlier thread...
The whole CCDE (and if I may mention the Cisco Certified Architect) is going to be interesting after a little development in the corporate world.
At present, I don't believe there is a Fortune 100 company out here that does not currently have a design/architect person that was home grown from R&S configuration expert. It appears the CCDE will be looked at initially as a R&S design expert, but with the growth and diversity of technology, what we'll end up seeing is a CCDE for most every area of technology (Wireless, Security...etc). There you go Cisco...more money for you...
The inevitable truth is that you can have all the new born designers/architects in the world, but they will be walking hand in hand with a team of configuration experts that will drive home the real architectural goal of any corporation. I have seen it with my own two beady little eyes.
Just my 'wooden' nickels worth,
It's too bad you have to have the CCDE to go for the Cisco Certified Architech and 15K. I would like to challenge the experts with my 5 dollar budget projects.