That makes perfect sense. Hide the fact that nobody is passing the lab. Good call!!! Maybe someone will announce at Cisco Live people are going to start passing again. $1000 labs and 50k CCIEs coming soon (j/k).
Feel free to send this message to John C. More CCIEs equals more money for the share holders.
Prior to recession, Chambers wanted 50,000 CCIE by 2010 year end. There are many external factors and increased student costs that are working against that now.
Cisco's CCIE statistics vanish http://www.bradreese.com/blog/ccie-5-25-2010.htm
Brad had made it his personal quest to keep track of the CCIE WW no's for us, Cisco no longer provides monthly totals Brad said.
That’s a great article from Brad Reese. I applaud Brad for exposing the major issues with the CCIE program (including 360) and its continued effort to hide the truth from loyal CCIE candidates (aka non-employee sales engineers). Something is clearly wrong with the process at the moment and hopefully John Chambers will start shaking things up.
You can’t blame the so called ‘gray market’ vendors for the numbers when your own program has yet to show any value.
I think it is truly sad that Cisco would choose to quit publishing those statistics. I find it refreshing to be able to say that I'm 1 of xxxx engineers worldwide with the CCIE Security. The fact that the program is not growing at a record rate is evidence of its difficulty and value to those who have attained it. To hide the statistics to bolster market position (by hiding the stats from market analysts) also hides its value. That could lead to fewer seriously pursuing it. I certainly hope Cisco starts publishing the WW Stats again.
Agreed. Perhaps just like the new HP job cutting waves, it is and will continue to ripple through companies such as Cisco. Them not publishing/marketing the CCIE numbers was just an internal job/departmental cut, or a political move to hide the slowing trend. ?
Cisco must be feeling the 'W' or 'double dip' too as many other companies are dropping salaries by 25% due to surplus of workers/lower demands for product IMO.
I would prefer to see them take the opportunity to illustrate the value of certifications to business owners with large enterprises, in particular during a time when there is little back ground noise such as now. ...aka hypercommunication & buzz strategy, make the competition irrelevant and do it now.
What exactly does a CCIE do. Say we have a CCIE (ignore the horror stories about the CCIE who read the book) and CCNP who has done the standard things installed 6500, 3750, routers, knows about CE BGP VRF-Lite, Call Manager, CME, WLC and FAT-AP. OK he is not a CCIE but he has read www.cisco.com and everything is working. And assume the CCNP learnt from the installation. If labour is the most significant part of my project why would I use a expensive CCIE when I have a CCNP at a lower rate. Most projects are not Cisco only they interact with other business elements. The problem we have created is that providers of CCIE see them as a revenue stream so often CCIE is specified when in reality a CCNA could do the job.
This is not a critisism of CCIE but questions do we need 50,000 CCIE or would 25,000 CCIE and 25,000 CCNP be just as good. There was another question about Multicast and it looks like it is now in CCDE. If Cisco narrow CCIE then it will loose value.
Yeah, well, statistics are statistics... There are many different contributing factors to the not-so-nice change in the total count of CCIEs out there today...
But in the end, it's still one of the most coveted things, and many people are indeed going for it! It's just a matter of who can pull "it" all together when taking the exam in order to pass it!
In down economies though, many people look for shortcuts. There really aren't any here. Does that make for discouraging statistics? Probably. But you have to look at it over time and in conjunction with everything else around it!
Are there drops in CCNA and CCNP folks? Honestly I don't know, but comparative things like that would really paint a broader picture that trying to look at one statistic in a vacuum and interpolate reality based on that!
Scott, I don’t think anyone here is looking for a shortcut or some sort of hand out. I’ve never known you or any other vendor to teach those values, so why bother adding this element as a consideration? Are you saying those same people that passed last year were taking a shortcut (I didn’t think so)? Maybe we’re not as smart or intelligent as the previous year students (I didn’t think so). We all know the exam is going to be tough and it might take a few attempts to tackle. This isn’t a new concept for most people.
What is new? The declining CCIE numbers is new. This isn’t the first time our economy has taken a turn for the worst. Why didn’t we see such a dramatic decrease after 9/11? Brad Reese and George Morton have predicted only 250 new CCIEs in 2010 (2,595 fewer). Something is clearly wrong.
I’m not trying to waste any more study time on this topic, but I will say this, I have no plans on taking the exam until I start seeing some results via forums, success stories, stats, GS, etc… I’ve spent a great deal of time and money in my pursuit for the CCIE, and all I want is a ‘fair’ opportunity (not winning the lotto type of odds).
If there are only 250 new IE's in 2010, I am one of them. Honestly, I think there are more than that. Everyone that I have talked to during my studies felt that their exam was tough but fair. It is a lot of hard work, but doable. When pursuing the IE, I definitely recommend putting the horror stories out of your mind and focusing on the blueprint, documentation and rack time. It is a really tough process, but in the end you should be an expert to get the digits. I found the whole process to be very humbling and I am just grateful I received a pass on the second attempt.
Well, from what I understand,40% of all statistics are made up on the spot. That said, there have been 300 new ccies since yesterday, 400 new Ccnps and 500 new ccnas. Does that matter? No. Is it true? No. But let me ask this. If you heard that there were only 4 new ccies in 2010 would you stop studying for it? If you knew there were 1000 new CCIEs this year would that make you study harder? Maybe I pursue the CCIE for a different reason. I don't care what the numbers are. I study for the CCIE because I want to make myself better at what I do, and, in a weird way, it's kinda fun. I would recommend more time in the books and less time worrying about what everyone else is doing. Really this is just my opinion, take it for nothing more than that. Brandon Carroll, CCIE #23837 Ascolta
The passing rate is one of many factors I use when deciding take the lab. As with any investment, I plan to follow the trends of the market (CCIE stats in this case) before taking the plunge ($1400 plus hotel.travel). Would you enroll in a college that had the lowest graduation rate in its history (or better yet, tried to hide that info)? The same training courses with IPX, INE, CCBC, Narbik, etc… used to be enough to fully prepare students for a reasonable passing rate. At the moment, all bets are off (in my opinion). I thought this 360 program was suppose fill the gap and provide the student with enough material to pass the lab. How’s that working out? Either the 360 program isn’t working or their not on the same page with the CCIE program. How can you create a training program that doesn’t collaborate with each other?
You want to talk about the economy and how that’s affecting the overall stats. Fair enough, but then why create a training program that actually increases the cost for the cash strapped students/businesses? Why introduce a major change to the lab and expect the students to pay even more money for updated material? Blah, blah, blah! You’d be dead wrong to think I’m complaining because the lab is difficult. No sh** it’s hard!
I have no problem continuing my pursuit of the lab with self study, practice labs, and even a training course. There’s no rush to spend money when countless others that are following the same training path can’t seem to pass the exam. Again, what’s wrong with the picture? Again, why hide the numbers if people are passing?
Just a frustrated vent! Keep up the fight and continue to study. The number will come in due time.
Those World Wide stats really didn't indicate the pass rate because there was no indication of the number of candidate attempts. The only published stats were the number of IE's. So we don't really know how many IE's went into management, retired, or passed away. In those cases, the IE would lapse and the count would be adjusted. I do see the value in the stats with showing the "eliteness" of the CCIE Certification. I don't see the deterrent in this number alone.
I think all of the training companies that you mentioned can identify their success stories. They may or may not honestly share the stats. Honestly, they probably don't officially track each candidates attempt. Ideally a qualified candidate would pass. However those of us who have been through the process, recognize that the first lab attempt is likely a part of the process and not the end of it.
One more thing that I'd like to mention is in regards to your comment on the cost. The lab is expensive especially when travel is factored in. In the US, most people miss a couple of days of work and spend $2k per attempt (fees + travel). That is a lot of money. I think it is pretty safe to say that you need to be prepared to take the exam two or more times (but there are exceptions).
Like I said, that is a lot of money. I consider myself a fairly conservative person with my finances. So how did I bring myself to spend $4k on the two lab attempts? Part of the answer is that that is a really small part of the expense of getting your CCIE. The cost of this process I underestimated in the beginning. By the time that you have reached the point of testing, the cost of equipment and/or rack rental will likely have reached or exceeded $4k. Additionally, most people spend $1000 or so on practice materials and books. That's not to mention the cost of any instructor lead training. So without considering an instructor led course, you can easily spend $10k or more on getting a CCIE.
$10K is still a small part of the cost. The real cost is time. I can tell you that I spent six to eight hundred hours in study and practice. For me that was time that I was not able to be part of my family. Additionally, I know that billable rates vary radically depending on where you are located. However if we just use $100/hr as an example, I can safely say that I spent $60-$80k worth of time pursuing my CCIE. For me, after investing that amount of time, it was pretty easy to risk $2000 for my second attempt. By this point I felt like I'd been studying forever.
This process was particularly tough for me. Four days after my first attempt, my 10 year old son had a brain hemorrhage and had a very serious brain surgery. He is doing fine now, but that was a huge wake up call for me. I certainly want to get (and keep) my priorities in a row. Honestly at that time, part of me just wanted to quit and be a family man again. I did take some time out of my studies while he was being treated. However, I had such an investment in time away from my family that I felt I should finish. While studying, practicing and pushing myself, I learned a lot. I think I'm a better engineer as a result of the CCIE process. I'm glad that I went through the process and certainly glad to have attained the certification. The cost to obtain the CCIE is great. The thing that I caution against is underestimating that cost in the beginning. It is so easy to spend a lot of time and money and realize you are only half way there. I know I did exactly that, but I didn't quit.